Session Start (Thunder_God:#CranRat): Sat Jul 08 17:36:49 2006 [17:36] *** #CranRat: @Thunder_God [17:36] *** #CranRat was created on Sat Jul 08 17:37:27 2006. [17:37] *** Filip has joined #CranRat. [17:38] *** JohnMike has joined #CranRat. [17:38] JohnMike: #roll 5[1d6] [17:38] *** -RPGServ- [17:39] JohnMike: just a test - do not mind [17:39] Filip: BTW, is it possible to add a comment to a roll? [17:39] *** SSF has joined #CranRat. [17:39] SSF: Can we move this to CranApple? [17:39] Thunder_God: Heh, why? [17:40] Thunder_God: Filip>Dunno. [17:40] Thunder_God: Ask on the main channel. [17:40] SSF: I'm joking. [17:40] Thunder_God: ::Noogies Andrew:: [17:40] SSF: Cran = Cranberry :P [17:40] Thunder_God: Ok, Michael, tell me when you're ready. [17:40] Thunder_God: BTW, if Michael goes afk, it means he started playing something else, and I went upstairs to smack him. [17:41] Filip: sure [17:41] Thunder_God: Ok, I'll now post the change-log between version 2.0 and the current version, so we'll all be on the same page. [17:41] Thunder_God: Editing: Changed links to point to my new blog. Character Generation: Traits can’t go above 5, as per the Glossary, not above 6. Scene Framing: “In order for a player to set a scene for a character….”. Not character twice. Fixed the jumping dot in the play example, finally. In the Play Example, the players’ initials match those of the Aspects they portray in the example. Fixed the sheet’s footnote, also changed footnote space to be uniform. [17:41] JohnMike: AFK - Pinball.... waiting for my smackdown [17:41] Thunder_God: Substantial: Updated Sheet. Added Aspect Relations help-chart to the end of the document. NPCs assume Aspect 5, Trait 3. Added Acts. Added some material to cover the Aspects. Specialties now give 2 bonus dice. Added a little bit of material to cover The Enlightened. Added “Feel” section, covering the way play should look and proceed. [17:42] Thunder_God: Michael, Saar, please stop, I'm taking this seriously. [17:42] Thunder_God: Saar is my brother, on whose computer Michael operates. [17:42] Thunder_God: When a player uses a Token to aid one side in a Conflict/Bidding, the Enlightened only gains it after the Bidding/Conflict ends, so he won't be able to immediately spend said Token to nullify what the player just did. [17:43] Thunder_God: Ok, Mike is reading sheets, then we begin. [17:45] JohnMike: im good [17:46] JohnMike: good to go that is .. [17:46] Thunder_God: Ok, we now move to Andrew's scene, who will have to be for Sarah unless he wants to spend a Token to get a scene for the character for whom he's Dirt/rar, Sarah. [17:47] Thunder_God: Now, since that last scene was for...? Someone remind me. [17:47] SSF: Nope. [17:47] Thunder_God: Who was the last scene for, Rod or Annie? [17:47] Thunder_God: Andrew>Hm? [17:47] SSF: (Can I get a link to the sheets?) [17:47] Filip: for Rod [17:48] Filip: We started with the lady [17:48] Filip: (Link: http://competitiverpgs.pbwiki.com/FrontPage)http://competitiverpgs.pbwiki.com/FrontPage [17:48] Thunder_God: (Link: http://competitiverpgs.pbwiki.com/FrontPage)http://competitiverpgs.pbwiki.com/FrontPage [17:48] *** JohnMike has signed off IRC (Disintegrated: Today is a good day to chat.). [17:49] Filip: Um? [17:49] Thunder_God: He tried to open a link. [17:49] Thunder_God: On the IRC applet window. [17:49] Thunder_God: So sec. [17:50] Filip: So, Andrew, maybe start nararting, or at least writing? ;) [17:50] Thunder_God: Ok, Andrew, it's either Rod, or Sarah, if you're willing to spend a Token. [17:50] SSF: (Doing, thinking.) [17:51] *** JohnMike has joined #CranRat. [17:52] SSF: It is later in the day, the sun hasn't quite set, but it will soon. Sarah is huddled in an alleyway moping over her life, and holding-- no, smothering-- her puppy. She rocked back and forth atop the emtpy metal trashcan where she sat, her legs dangling off the end. [17:52] Thunder_God: Which character. [17:52] Thunder_God: Please define character and Goal. [17:53] SSF: (Sarah, goal: protect the puppy.) [17:53] Thunder_God: Ok. [17:53] Thunder_God: So you give me one Token. [17:53] SSF: (Done.) [17:53] SSF: She had been here the past hour, and beyond the sounds of the town moving around her, she was in her own world. [17:53] Thunder_God: (I want to buy Narration, but guess I'll let you Narrate) [17:53] SSF: (Pff, ok.) [17:54] *** JohnMike has signed off IRC (Disintegrated: Today is a good day to chat.). [17:54] Thunder_God: Grrr. [17:54] *** Guest0056 has joined #CranRat. [17:54] SSF: (wb) [17:54] *** Guest0056 is now known as mike. [17:54] SSF: A man tall man dressed in a blue uniform walked into one end of the alley. The police officer called out, upon seeing her, "Hey, Girl-- whatcha doing here?" (and this would be conflict, non?) [17:55] Thunder_God: (Sure, Social conflict) [17:55] Thunder_God: Stake for Police officer? [17:55] Thunder_God: Mike: [17:52] SSF: It is later in the day, the sun hasn't quite set, but it will soon. Sarah is huddled in an alleyway moping over her life, and holding-- no, smothering-- her puppy. She rocked back and forth atop the emtpy metal trashcan where she sat, her legs dangling off the end. [17:52] Thunder_God: Which character. [17:52] Thunder_God: Please define character and Goal. [17:53] SSF: (Sarah, goal: protect the puppy.) [17:53] Thunder_God: Ok. [17:53] Thunder_God: So you give me one Token. [17:53] SSF: (Done.) [17:53] SSF: She had been here the past hour, and beyond the sounds of the town moving around her, she was in her own world. [17:53] Thunder_God: (I want to buy Narration, but guess I'll let you Narrate) [17:53] SSF: (Pff, ok.) [17:54] *** JohnMike has signed off IRC (Disintegrated: Today is a good day to chat.). [17:54] Thunder_God: Grrr. [17:54] *** Guest0056 has joined #CranRat. [17:54] SSF: (wb) [17:54] *** Guest0056 is now known as mike. [17:54] SSF: A man tall man dressed in a blue uniform walked into one end of the alley. The police officer called out, upon seeing her, "Hey, Girl-- whatcha doing here?" (and this would be conflict, non?) [17:55] Thunder_God: (Sure, Social conflict) [17:55] Thunder_God: Stake for Police officer? [17:55] Thunder_God: Andrew, stakes for Sarah? I'll cover stakes for police officer. [17:56] Filip: It's not possible for any of us to influence the stakes in this conflict? [17:56] Thunder_God: You can make suggestions. [17:57] Filip: I think she should run. Fast like hell [17:57] Thunder_God: And you can try to wrest control. [17:57] Thunder_God: Stakes for Police officer: Question the girl. [17:57] SSF: (Police: Take Sarah back to her parents) [17:58] SSF: (Oh, you get to declare the stakes?) [17:58] Thunder_God: I declare for NPCs. [17:58] Thunder_God: You declare for PCs. [17:58] Thunder_God: If someone wants a different stake, they need to try and wrest control. [17:58] Thunder_God: Water is very much like Filip said, "Escape". [18:00] Thunder_God: What do you think? [18:00] SSF: I agree. [18:00] Thunder_God: Ok, it'd be physical on your side, social on mine, or you think otherwise? [18:00] mike: I think Sara should stay and try to talk her way out of it .. [18:01] Filip: Taht won't really pay for you [18:01] Filip: But try and wrest control ;) [18:01] Thunder_God: Mike>That'd be more of a Dirt thing, why would Rat want her to stay and talk? [18:02] mike: Fine - your right - run!!!! [18:02] Thunder_God: Heh. [18:02] Thunder_God: Ok, Andrew, Physical for you, social for me? If you win, you manage to evade cop, if I win, he manages to get her to stay put and begins questioning her? [18:03] SSF: Sure. [18:03] SSF: But first I need to keep control. [18:03] Thunder_God: No one tries to wrest it. [18:04] SSF: Filip did. [18:04] SSF: Oh. [18:04] SSF: Misread. [18:04] SSF: Okay, run! [18:04] Thunder_God: I have 5 dice, difficulty 3 or under, you have 6 dice, difficulty of 1 or under, do you want to use any specialties, advantages, dice, tokens? [18:04] SSF: specialty: running shoeless. [18:04] Thunder_God: Yup. [18:04] Filip: Can we also suggest advantages? [18:04] Thunder_God: So you have 8 dice. [18:04] Thunder_God: Filip>YES! [18:05] SSF: I would like to steal a die from the cop. [18:05] Filip: first, she has to take of her shoes +1 for policeman [18:05] Thunder_God: You can't steal from NPCs. [18:05] Thunder_God: Only from other Aspects. [18:05] Thunder_God: Filip>You assume she walks with shoes ;) [18:05] Filip: no one suggested that it's otherwise ;) [18:06] Filip: the policeman knows these streets better, +1 for him [18:06] Thunder_God: Ok, I'll accept the shoes, but I don't like the streets better, she does live in the streets, so I'd say it's about equal? [18:06] mike: Is the policeman athletic or fat ? [18:06] SSF: Fat policemen fire! [18:06] Thunder_God: Mike>Your call, also, the policeman doesn't try to catch her, he tries to talk to her. [18:07] Thunder_God: This is the thing, Sarah tries to run, the policeman is all about talk. [18:07] Filip: definitely, he'll get alarmed and start to chase her [18:07] Filip: and he's probably fast runner [18:07] mike: In that case - the cop has an advantage over her .. [18:08] Filip: also, he can call for help from other policemen [18:08] Thunder_God: Well, that could be a follow-up conflict. [18:08] Thunder_God: This conflict>He tries to talk, she tries to run. [18:08] Filip: also, the cop probably has good athletic shoes. that's +1 die in WoD ;) [18:08] mike: :) [18:08] Thunder_God: Sarah runs fast without shoes +2 dice to her, Cop has time to talk to her while she takes shoes off, +1 dice for him. [18:08] Thunder_God: :P [18:08] Filip: he went through psychological training and knows how to talk to homless girls [18:09] Thunder_God: Cool, +1 dice to cop for that. [18:09] Filip: and he's got an authority [18:09] Filip: he's older than her [18:09] Filip: and possibly rather handsome [18:09] Thunder_God: Filip>I'd think that's a +1 for her. [18:09] SSF: She is scared for her puppy and doesn't care. [18:09] Thunder_God: I was just about to state she';s probably defiant. [18:09] Thunder_God: So we'll add "Defiant +1" to Sarah. [18:09] Thunder_God: And I think that's enough. [18:09] mike: All he really sees is the coffee place, she is in his way [18:09] Thunder_God: +3 dice to Sarah, +2 to Cop. [18:10] Thunder_God: Andrew, 9 dice, difficulty 1 or less. [18:10] SSF: I want to steal from the cop. [18:10] Thunder_God: Cop, 7 dice, difficulty 5 or less. [18:10] SSF: Can I? [18:10] Thunder_God: Andrew, you can only steal from other players. [18:10] Thunder_God: Other Aspects. [18:10] Filip: dif 3 or less for the cop [18:10] Thunder_God: And then, only in Bidding. [18:10] SSF: Bah. Alright. [18:10] Thunder_God: Err, yes, diff 3, not 5, sorry. [18:10] Thunder_God: So, anyone wants to spend tokens, dice? [18:11] SSF: I'll spend 2 dice and a token. [18:11] Thunder_God: If Mike/Filip want to spend dice, it'd cost them two dice per one die added, Andrew gets to do it on a 1-for-1 basis, if no one has anything to say we're moving on. [18:11] Thunder_God: Ok, that's 13 dice for Andrew. [18:11] Filip: I pass [18:11] Thunder_God: And a Token for me once the competition ends. [18:12] Thunder_God: Mike, want to do anything or we'll roll? [18:12] mike: roll.... [18:12] Thunder_God: #roll 7[1d6] [18:12] *** -RPGServ- [18:12] *** -RPGServ- [18:12] Thunder_God: That's two successes for Mr. Cop, 13 dice for you Andrew. [18:13] SSF: #roll 13[1d6] [18:13] *** -RPGServ- [18:13] SSF: 3 successes. [18:13] Thunder_God: 3 successes, you gain one die, yay, and one Mark. [18:13] Thunder_God: Please narrate success, unless someone else wants to buy success? Remember, we can decide this conflict evolves into a pursuit conflict if it seems right by Andrew's narration. [18:13] SSF: (anyone purchasing?) [18:14] Filip: no [18:14] mike: nope [18:14] Thunder_God: Nope. [18:14] Thunder_God: Narrate away. [18:16] SSF: Sarah hits the ground running, the little puppy yelping out in surprise as she holds it tight to her body. The metal trashcan fell over as she ran out the other end of the alleyway. The police officer went to give chase, but tripped over the trash can's top, falling face first on the asphalt. Sarah made it out of the alley and was bolting down the street, an odd sight to Rod as he drove by in his jalopy. [18:17] Thunder_God: That sounds fine for me. [18:17] Filip: it's possible she falls under the car's wheels [18:17] Thunder_God: I'm giving Water a goal. "Evade Cops" for Sarah. [18:17] Thunder_God: Filip>His narration, and "Drove by". [18:18] Thunder_God: Ok, my turn! Woo hoo. [18:18] Filip: what now? [18:19] Thunder_God: I can either set a scene, or more usually, set the background stage. [18:19] Thunder_God: Narration without conflict. [18:19] Thunder_God: The war between the rival gangs continues, and it keeps escalating. One day, a quarter to three one sunny Monday, and [18:21] Thunder_God: Sarah is heading to a nearby Shelter, not for her, mind, but for food for her puppy, just until she'll get a job and could buy it food. Sarah sees the cop from the other day, and just as he starts towards her, an explosion rips through the shelter, blowing through trees, smashing windows, and sending the cop reeling down to the ground. [18:21] Thunder_God: Sarah takes a look at the wounded cop, the pup yelps and she bolts. [18:21] Thunder_God: Fade to black as we hear Frank(Annie's son) learning that his wife, who went shopping nearby suffered an anxiety attack because of the bombing. [18:21] Thunder_God: And fade to black, and it's now Filip's turn. [18:22] Thunder_God: Anyone wants to set new Goals before we move on? [18:22] Filip: nope [18:22] mike: no [18:22] Thunder_God: Andrew? [18:23] Filip: Anyone wants to buy narration from me? [18:23] mike: no way ... [18:23] Thunder_God: Define character first. [18:23] Thunder_God: Which character? And Andrew, do you want to set new Goals for anyone? [18:24] Filip: Annie [18:24] Thunder_God: ::Waits for Andrew's response first:: [18:24] Filip: and since there are no new goals for Dirt, I'll take Dirt's goal [18:24] SSF: (I had to run one of those chores I was telling you about :P) [18:25] SSF: (nope) [18:25] SSF: (narrate away) [18:25] Thunder_God: Andrew>For how long? [18:25] Thunder_God: Filip, you can narrate anyone's goals. [18:25] Thunder_God: You don't have to narrate your goal. [18:25] Filip: that's mike's goal ;) [18:25] SSF: (5 min) [18:26] mike: Mike likes his goal !!!! [18:26] Thunder_God: Stop, anyone, Filip. [18:26] Filip: ? [18:26] Thunder_God: Filip, you can set a scene for Rod for free, to narrate a scene for Annie, for whom you're Water, you have to pay a Token. [18:27] Filip: oh [18:27] Filip: I somehow thought that water player narrates [18:27] Thunder_God: Rat/Dirt narration for free, can't narrate for the character who last had a scene, Water narration costs one Water. [18:27] Filip: for free [18:27] Thunder_God: Water player narrates the result of conflicts. [18:27] Thunder_God: Always. [18:27] Thunder_God: Andrew is Water for Sarah, and purchased Narration for her with a Token, so he narrated both. [18:28] Filip: ok [18:28] Filip: so, rod it is [18:29] Filip: well, andrew's goal then, get a normal job [18:29] Thunder_God: ::Nods:: Narrate away. [18:30] SSF: Yup [18:31] Filip: After a night of heavy drinking Rod wakes up the Monday morning, err... noon and finds out that he has something like an hour to get to his job interview. In a mentioned shelter. It's, say half past two. [18:31] Thunder_God: (Just remember folks, intercrossing is fine, just don't meet...) [18:31] Thunder_God: (Or more than cursory meeting) [18:32] Filip: He get's ready quickly (too quickly too look good enough for a job interview) and with head hurting like hell runs down to his car. [18:33] Filip: He drives, and, surprise, surprise, the traffic is very heavy [18:33] Filip: 20 minutes left to interview [18:33] Thunder_God: (How about road-rage, or some such, or redneck roadrage? LOL) [18:34] Filip: I think that's tough enough, so he'll give up for today, and drive slowly to park, in order to feed the birds ;) [18:34] Thunder_God: Well, so long there's Conflict.... [18:36] Filip: So, he sits in a nearby park, hears a loud explosion in the background ;) [18:36] Thunder_God: (There's still no Conflict, please get to it) [18:37] SSF: (bah, I just got back. Would've the challanged the go to the park :P) [18:37] Filip: (not only I can suggest conflicts, mind you) [18:37] Thunder_God: (Heh) [18:37] Filip: oh, sorry [18:37] Thunder_God: (Well, your Narration doesn't make any conflict apparent, we suggest what is a conflict, but you narrate till then, and I don't see conflicts) [18:38] Filip: When he has enough, he comes back to his car. Not parked to well. There is a policeman near his machine, noting something. [18:38] Thunder_God: I want to set stakes! Oooh, ooh! [18:39] Filip: Now, he'll probably try to talk him out of give'ing him fine [18:39] Thunder_God: Rod: Angry, flip the cop off? [18:39] Thunder_God: Hm, your call, unless someone else wants to wrest control? [18:39] mike: He should kick the cop's ass ... [18:39] Filip: By lying, deceiving, and doing all the things he shouldn't do [18:40] Thunder_God: Mike, ye can suggest that, but seeing that's not a very Water thing to do.... [18:40] Thunder_God: Filip>Fine, anyone wants to wrest control? [18:40] Filip: No, he'd rather blantanlt lie to him about being in a hurry, looking for his kid [18:40] Thunder_God: Stake for cop: Not caring, giving him a fine, and then noticing he's drunk, drunk driving!(Well, not drunk, but his clothes smell of alcohol) [18:40] Thunder_God: I'd say Social for Rod, Social for cop? [18:41] Thunder_God: Andrew, you want to try and wrest control, do you Michael? [18:41] Filip: 3 dice for cop anyway, social for rod [18:41] mike: 2 tokens [18:41] Filip: 5 dice for cop I mean [18:41] Filip: for whom? [18:41] mike: rod [18:41] Thunder_God: Mike>I didn't ask that, do you try to wrest control right now? [18:41] SSF: no [18:41] mike: yup [18:42] Thunder_God: Mike, hold on. [18:42] Filip: (btw, as usual, I've seen numerous opportunities for a conflict up till now. anyone could interject) [18:42] Thunder_God: What is your stake, what do you want Rod to do that fits Water, if you win control? [18:43] Thunder_God: (Filip, I've seen it too, but it was all internal, you could have added someone honkering, but you didn't, you could have added people trying to get Rod to go to the explosion site and help, but you didn't, it's your Narration). [18:43] Filip: (ok) [18:43] Thunder_God: ::Waits for Mike:: [18:43] mike: Nevermind... I'll hold on ... (for now.. ) [18:44] Thunder_God: Ok, Filip, do you want to spend Tokens? Note your Die Reservoir is 0, so if you lose, it'll start a flood scene. [18:44] Filip: nope, I'll risk [18:45] Thunder_God: 5 dice, 3 difficulty for both of us, now, advatanges, etc? [18:45] Thunder_God: I'll give the cop +1, he's annoyed and doesn't care about Filip, the recent explosion is what he cares about. [18:46] Filip: ok, fine for me [18:46] Filip: let's roll [18:46] mike: cool [18:46] Filip: unless someone uses dice or tokens [18:46] Thunder_God: Andrew? [18:46] SSF: pass [18:47] Filip: #roll 5[1d6] [18:47] *** -RPGServ- [18:47] Filip: 2 sux [18:47] mike: Using token for the cop .. l [18:47] Thunder_God: Filip, do you want to add dice? [18:47] Thunder_God: You have 3 suxx. [18:48] Filip: social 2 [18:48] Thunder_God: Wait, no, it's social, right. [18:48] Thunder_God: Filip, Mike is adding a Token, do you want to add tokens for Rod? [18:48] Filip: it's still possible to add dice? [18:48] Filip: nope [18:48] Thunder_God: I'll let you for now. [18:48] Thunder_God: Ok, so it's 8 dice for the cop. [18:48] Thunder_God: #roll 8[1d6] [18:48] *** -RPGServ- [18:48] *** -RPGServ- [18:49] Thunder_God: That's 6 suxx. [18:49] SSF: ow [18:49] Filip: who narrates? [18:49] Thunder_God: Mike does, he's Water. [18:49] Thunder_God: Mike, narrate away. [18:49] Filip: oh, right [18:50] Thunder_God: Then we'll do the Flood Scene. [18:50] Thunder_God: Everyone look at the character sheet, this is how things stand before the Flood Scene. [18:51] mike: Do we still need narrating? [18:51] Thunder_God: Michael, remember two things: 1, Rod will get a Fine, you get to dictate how Rod will act as well as the cop, and since it was in the stakes, the cop will notice the scent of alcohol on Rod. [18:51] Thunder_God: Yes, Narrate. [18:52] mike: As the cop writes up the ticket for Rod, a strange scent reaches his nose. He quickly realized that it is the smell of cheep (very cheep) alcohol ... [18:53] mike: Rod - on his part already gave up and is willing to take the fine and move on... However just before he takes the piece of paper - the policeman asks him to take an alcohol test [18:53] Thunder_God: (CheAp) [18:53] Thunder_God: (Anyone wants to start a new conflict?) [18:53] mike: sorry - it happens when I type fast ... You'll all have to forgive me for that [18:53] Filip: (no flood scene before a new conflict?) [18:54] Thunder_God: I have to forgive you nothing :P [18:54] SSF: (flood scene!) [18:54] Thunder_God: Filip>If there's no conflict, then flood scene after narration. [18:54] mike: F**k you ... [18:54] Thunder_God: If there is another conflict, then flood scene, then conflict. [18:54] Thunder_God: Do you people think there's a call for another Conflict or do you wish Mike to just keep narrating? [18:54] Filip: (so flood first anyway) [18:54] Thunder_God: Yes, but we need to decide, Conflict or not, first. [18:54] mike: I think there should be another conflict... [18:55] Thunder_God: Mike>Then call for it, and stop it with the "...", you get Narrative Control in this game, fucking use it. [18:55] Filip: (he'll try to lie out of the test) [18:55] Thunder_God: Ok, we have another Conflict, congratulations. [18:55] Thunder_God: Now we move to the Flood Scene. [18:55] Thunder_God: People, take a look at the Character sheet. [18:56] Thunder_God: Filip has 6 dice again, but he has 1 dice for free in the Bidding for the one die up for grabs. [18:56] Thunder_God: Everyone else starts with 0 dice, can buy 1-for-1 with dice from Die Reservoir, or 2-for-1 with Tokens. [18:56] Thunder_God: So what do you kids do? And remember, whoever wins the Aspect Dot, his Die Reservoir is replenished back to 6! :D [18:56] mike: I'll take one dice for a couple of tokens. . [18:56] Thunder_God: Mike>Other way around. [18:57] Thunder_God: One Token for two dice. [18:57] Filip: I bid 2 dice [18:57] mike: Then I'll buy a token [18:57] Thunder_God: No, you buy two dice with a Token, you can't buy Tokens. [18:57] Filip: Andrew? [18:58] Thunder_God: Ok, Filip has 3 dice, Mike has 2. [18:58] SSF: 3 dice [18:58] Thunder_God: I gain a Token since this is a Flood Scene. [18:58] Thunder_God: Filip 3, Andrew 3, Mike 2. [18:58] Filip: one more dice [18:58] Filip: Filip 4 [18:58] mike: I want a couple more dices .. [18:58] Thunder_God: Andrew, you can't buy 3 dice. You only have 2 in your Die Reservoir, unless you use Tokens. [18:58] Thunder_God: Mike, do you buy with dice or Tokens. [18:59] mike: Tokend [18:59] mike: Tokesd [18:59] mike: Tokens [18:59] SSF: then 1 token, 1 die. [18:59] SSF: I thought I had 3 :/ [18:59] SSF: I looked at Sarah [18:59] Thunder_God: Michael, stop it. [19:00] Thunder_God: What do you buy, and with what? [19:00] Thunder_God: You spent 1 token for two dice. [19:00] Thunder_God: What then? [19:00] SSF: Wasn't Mike the one with 6 dice? :P [19:00] Thunder_God: He is. [19:00] Thunder_God: But it's not clear what he wants to do. [19:00] mike: I thought I have 2 dices ???? [19:01] Thunder_God: Mike, look at Rod's sheet. [19:01] Filip: it's good to have some tokens before you ;) [19:01] Thunder_God: You have 2 dice, from 1 Token you spent. [19:01] Filip: like me ;) [19:01] Thunder_God: You have 6 dice in your Die Reservoir. [19:01] Filip: and own sheet, woo-hoo! :D [19:01] mike: Sorry - looked at the wrong sheet - I will not buy anything [19:01] Thunder_God: Mike, get to my room so I could explain a thing or two to you, please. [19:02] Thunder_God: ::Facepalms:: [19:02] mike: Not now ... [19:02] Thunder_God: Yes now, now. [19:02] Thunder_God: I need to explain things to you fast. [19:02] mike: AFK\ [19:02] Thunder_God: Sheet is updated for how it now stands. [19:03] mike: I use my second token [19:03] Thunder_God: Michael thought you use your Aspect rating to roll for Bidding as well... heh. [19:03] Thunder_God: Ok, Michael 4 dice, Andrew 3 dice. Filip 4 dice. [19:03] Filip: oh [19:04] Thunder_God: Anyone else wants to spend more? [19:04] Filip: one more dice [19:04] Filip: or two more [19:04] Filip: for 6 total [19:04] Filip: and a token [19:04] Filip: 8 total [19:04] Thunder_God: Everyone look at sheet, to make sure the current situation is acceptable. [19:04] Thunder_God: f [19:05] mike: Can I by more dices ? [19:05] SSF: I'm going to wint his roll. [19:05] Thunder_God: Filip has 8 dice, Michael 4, Andrew 3. [19:05] mike: Can I by more dices ? [19:05] Thunder_God: Against a difficulty of 3 or less. [19:05] Thunder_God: Mike>You can buy with your die reservoir... [19:05] mike: Then I'll do so .. [19:05] Thunder_God: Well, how many, you obscure fuck. [19:06] Thunder_God: Don't say, "I'll do so", say, "I buy X more Dice!" :P [19:06] Thunder_God: Be decisive, be succint! [19:06] * Thunder_God slept 3 hours tonight, needs at least 4 hours of sleep to function properly, yo! [19:06] mike: i buy 2 more dices [19:07] Thunder_God: Ok, Filip 8, Michael 6, Andrew 3. [19:07] Thunder_God: Anyone else? [19:07] Filip: fine with me [19:07] Thunder_God: Andrew? [19:07] Thunder_God: ::Assumes Michael is fine, since he purchased last:: [19:07] SSF: good [19:08] Thunder_God: Ok folks, roll away. [19:08] Filip: #roll 8[1d6] [19:08] *** -RPGServ- [19:08] Thunder_God: 2 suxx for Filip. [19:08] Filip: grrr [19:08] SSF: #roll 3[1d6] [19:08] *** -RPGServ- [19:08] Thunder_God: 1 suxx for Andrew. [19:08] Filip: and the winner is... [19:08] SSF: 20 minute warning. [19:08] Filip: ... [19:08] mike: #roll 6[1d6] [19:08] *** -RPGServ- [19:09] SSF: Mike! [19:09] Thunder_God: 3 suxx for Michael, and he is the winner, whee! [19:09] Thunder_God: Andrew>Roger. [19:09] mike: Whoohoo [19:09] Thunder_God: Michael now has 7 Aspect Dots, his Die Reservoir is filled back to 6! [19:09] Thunder_God: Ok, new conflict. [19:10] Thunder_God: Cop smells alcohol on Rod. [19:10] Thunder_God: Rod does, what? Filip, this is yours to begin with, what does Rod do? [19:10] mike: Acts like nothing happened ... Tries to throw the cop off track.. [19:10] Filip: Rod lies that some trump tripped on him and spilled his vodka [19:11] Thunder_God: Filip>How is that Rat? [19:11] Filip: do you wrest control, mike? [19:11] Thunder_God: Mike>Base narration is Filip, let him talk first. [19:11] Filip: Rat, Wyrm, lying and stuff [19:12] Filip: And thatt's Rod's first reaction [19:12] Filip: since he's into lying already anyway [19:12] Thunder_God: Wyrm as in "Destruction, chaos". Rat isn't about lying, but about instincts, but I think it sticks. [19:12] Thunder_God: Anyone has another method for Rod to beat this conflict AND wants to wrest control? [19:12] Filip: well,however you call it. dark side of rod [19:12] Thunder_God: Heh. Well, I think that's his instinct, for sure. :) [19:13] Filip: mike? [19:13] mike: I want to wrest control [19:13] Thunder_God: Lie, because that's what he knows to do, though for most people, lying is what builds up society, so maybe Dirt. [19:13] Thunder_God: Mike>You need to give a Water solution for Rod though. [19:13] Thunder_God: What will Rod do? [19:13] Filip: how many dice do you bid? [19:13] Thunder_God: Filip, first the narrative bit. [19:13] Filip: he suggested something some lines before [19:14] Thunder_God: That's your method though. [19:14] Filip: "Acts like nothing happened ... Tries to throw the cop off track.. " [19:14] Filip: that's passive and calm [19:14] Filip: my method is sneaky [19:14] Thunder_God: Ok, sure. [19:14] mike: I think he should try and convince the cop that the car is parked for hours there and he isn't gonna drive it for a while [19:14] Thunder_God: Mike, how many Dice do you bid? [19:14] Thunder_God: He already gave Rod a fine, I'm not sure he'll take that excuse... [19:15] Filip: I still have 1 free die right? [19:15] Filip: Guy - so that's the conflict for ;) [19:15] mike: He gave Rod a fine for parking - he can continue and park [19:15] Filip: to see whether he takes or not ;) [19:15] Thunder_God: Heh. [19:15] Thunder_God: Filip, you have two free dice. [19:16] Thunder_God: 1 dice for being Defender, 1 die for Water>Dirt. [19:16] mike: (remember - Rod was never caight drinking and driving - but drinking and parking) [19:16] Filip: 2? [19:16] Filip: oh [19:16] Thunder_God: Water>Dirt, Rat +1 die when defending, -1 when attacking. [19:16] Thunder_God: Ok, cool. [19:16] Filip: right [19:16] Thunder_God: Mike, how many dice do you try to bid for control? [19:16] mike: 3 ? [19:17] mike: 3 ! [19:17] Thunder_God: Filip, you still have 2 Tokens. [19:17] Filip: not much ;) [19:17] Thunder_God: Mike>That's the spirit. [19:17] Filip: that's 1,5 sux on average ;) [19:17] Thunder_God: Filip, well? Do you bid anything or we move on? [19:17] Filip: vs. my 1 sux on average [19:18] Filip: I pass for now, I have some chances [19:18] SSF: Pff. I was going to help you fillip [19:18] SSF: -l [19:18] Thunder_God: Filip, I want to remind you, if you resolve a goal, you can spend 2 Tokens to fully replenish your die reservoir, Andrew, take note as well. [19:18] Filip: maybe this time luck smiles to me ;) [19:18] Thunder_God: Luck smiles /on/. [19:18] mike: Can we get on with rolling ?! [19:18] Filip: roll [19:19] Thunder_God: Yup, Filip, unless you object, roll first. [19:19] Thunder_God: Ok, roll folks, roll! :D [19:19] Filip: #roll 2[1d6] [19:19] *** -RPGServ- [19:19] Thunder_God: 0 suxx, Mike? [19:19] mike: #roll 3[1d6] [19:19] *** -RPGServ- [19:19] Thunder_God: 2 suxx. [19:19] Thunder_God: Mike has control. [19:19] Filip: have it your way then [19:19] Thunder_God: Ok, Mike, if you win, the cop believes Rod and doesn't do anything more to him. [19:20] Thunder_God: If the cop wins, he doesn't believe Rod, and hauls him downtown for a night in custody. [19:20] Thunder_God: This will be another social contest, cool? [19:20] SSF: luck does not smile to you [19:20] SSF: :( [19:20] Thunder_God: Andrew>You're the lucky one, or should be, heh. [19:20] Filip: no, it does :D [19:20] mike: Wait - is Rod wins - the ticket is nullified [19:20] Filip: believe me, it does [19:20] Thunder_God: Mike>Not the parking ticket, he still parked illegally. [19:21] Thunder_God: If he wins though, the cop lets him be. [19:21] Thunder_God: Ok? [19:21] Thunder_God: Filip>How so? [19:21] Filip: :D [19:21] mike: Ok - note my protest though [19:22] Thunder_God: Mike>Fine. The cop gets +1 specialty, Rod looks totally disorderly, since he didn't have enough time to organize for the interview, so he already looks drunk and shit, and parked illegally. [19:22] Thunder_God: Cop has 6 dice, difficulty 3 or under, Rod has 7 dice, difficulty of 2 or under, anyone wants to suggest Advantages, use dice, Tokens, etc? Or shall we just roll? [19:22] Filip: and since he tries to talk him out of a fine, that would make things more diff [19:23] Thunder_God: He already got a fine ;) This is for the alcohol, the fine issue is already resolved. [19:23] mike: The cop is in hurry to get to the bomb site ... [19:23] Thunder_God: Mike>Fine, that's +1 dice for you. [19:23] Thunder_God: Anything else? [19:23] mike: all is fine by me [19:23] Thunder_God: Rod 8 dice, diff 2 or under, cop 6 dice, diff 3 or under. [19:23] Thunder_God: Andrew, Filip? [19:24] Filip: nope [19:24] SSF: pass [19:24] Thunder_God: Ok, roll Mike. [19:24] mike: #roll 8[1d6] [19:24] *** -RPGServ- [19:24] Thunder_God: #roll 6[1d6] [19:24] *** -RPGServ- [19:24] *** -RPGServ- [19:24] Thunder_God: Mike, 1 suxx. [19:24] Thunder_God: Cop, 2 suxx. [19:24] Filip: (although I think it should be more difficult, since he tries to immediately nullify the effects of the previous conflict) [19:25] Thunder_God: Filip>That is provided by way of advantages. [19:25] Thunder_God: And he can't nullify them. [19:25] Thunder_God: Thus, he can only avoid going to jail, not nullify fine. [19:25] Filip: (you accepted mike's protest, but whatever for now) [19:25] Thunder_God: Michael, narrate how the cop doesn't believe Rod and takes him downtown. [19:25] mike: The protest was noted -not accepted [19:25] Thunder_God: (Filip, Mike wanted to note he protested, I duly noted it) [19:25] Filip: oh [19:26] Filip: :) [19:26] Filip: ok [19:26] Filip: I misunderstood [19:26] Filip: narrate, mike [19:26] mike: The scent is too much for the policeman - and even though not driving - the cop believs Rod is a potential menace and takes him to jail [19:26] Thunder_God: BTW, Mike, you lost one die, and Rod gained another Mark in Social, bso Marks=2, Social=2>Social is now 1, whee.... [19:26] Filip: and let's get to the next flood scene [19:26] mike: #@%#@$^*(%^&)@$(%^@(%_!#(&!(&^_(!$^ (Censored) [19:27] Thunder_God: Narrate now. [19:27] Thunder_God: Or that was it? [19:27] Thunder_God: Mike says he was succint. That was it. [19:28] Thunder_God: I'm going to give Rod a bunch of Goals, so everyone give me puppy eyes! [19:28] Filip: goal for Rod - run from jail [19:28] Thunder_God: Water gets "Get out of Jail". [19:28] Filip: um [19:28] mike: Goal for rod - avoid rednecks in the big house [19:28] Thunder_God: Filip>You want to buy it, or that's a suggestion? Each Goal costs a Token after all. [19:29] Thunder_God: Mike>You have Tokens to buy that? Or it's a suggestion? I'm paying for the Goals I'm now giving. [19:29] Filip: yes, for rat. run, not get out [19:29] Filip: that's at least illegal [19:29] mike: suggestion [19:29] Thunder_God: Ok, Dirt gets from me: Improve my social standing within jail. [19:30] Thunder_God: Rat will get "Escape jail", paid for by Filip. [19:30] mike: Another possible goal - avoid the jail's shower ... :) [19:30] Thunder_God: Heh. [19:30] SSF: (g2g) [19:30] Thunder_God: Ok folks, look at the sheet, tell me if it looks fine to you. [19:30] Thunder_God: Andrew, when will you return? 30 mins or so? [19:31] mike: I need some tokens ... [19:31] mike: Too bad I have none ... [19:31] Thunder_God: Mike>Then resolve Goals :P [19:31] mike: I try too... [19:31] mike: I try to [19:31] Filip: I'd say it's a bit unjust that Water and Dirt get new goals, but not Rat ;( [19:32] Thunder_God: OK, Filip, Mike, Andrew will return in 30-40 mins, tell me what you think currently... [19:32] Thunder_God: Filip>Well, you purchased a Goal for yourself... [19:32] Thunder_God: Heh. [19:32] Thunder_God: Also, I don't have limitless creativity, I give goals for what comes up in my sick mind... [19:32] Filip: I have the same complaints as the last time - advantages, GM's goals [19:32] mike: Let's just kick rat's ass ... (a bit of a play with words) [19:33] Thunder_God: Filip>Not only observations ATM, how are you enjoying it, what are you enjoying, what aren't you enjoying....? [19:33] Filip: I think Rod may want to get revenge on police [19:33] mike: I think we kinda forgot about his wife - didn't she blew up earlier .. [19:33] Thunder_God: Nope. [19:34] Filip: well, in the first scene, I forgot about some rule and botched things. in the second scene, verything went according to my plan [19:34] Filip: Nope for whom? [19:34] Thunder_God: Annie has a son, her son's wife got into trauma because she was near the bombing. [19:34] Thunder_God: For Mike. [19:34] Thunder_God: Filip>How about the "Fun" bit? [19:34] mike: Ohhh... Got my characters in a mix ... [19:34] Filip: btw, we continue when Andrew gets back, or is it the end? [19:34] Thunder_God: I'm asking not only about the mechanical and technical bits, etc. [19:34] Thunder_God: We continue when he returns. [19:34] Filip: Fun. yesh, fun. [19:35] Filip: yeah I mean ;) [19:35] Thunder_God: What was fun, what wasn't fun? :P [19:35] Filip: ok [19:35] Thunder_God: We know "Yesh" in Hebrew. [19:35] Filip: I won't ask what it means :) [19:36] Filip: I'd say plotting was fun. E.g. how I made mike to bid his dice for a lost case ;) [19:36] Filip: Protecting my own die at the same time ;) [19:36] Thunder_God: Heh. [19:37] Thunder_God: Yesh means "Yay!" [19:37] Filip: But hell, those advanages and stuff. Why didn't you accept most of my propositions in the chase? [19:37] Thunder_God: Well, "Lost cause" mechanically, but he gained Narrative control. [19:37] Thunder_God: Because they were too heliolic. [19:37] Thunder_God: They came out of nowhere, IMO. [19:38] Filip: because these are dice of nowwhere ;) [19:38] Thunder_God: Heh. [19:38] Filip: That's the thing John Kirk mentioned [19:38] Thunder_God: I am talking about your reasons. [19:38] Filip: now I could feel angry ;) [19:38] Thunder_God: She has to take her shoes off, fine. [19:38] Filip: my reasons were to win [19:38] Filip: that's what this game is about, remember? [19:38] Thunder_God: Cop knows streets better? I think not, she lives in them. [19:39] Filip: from few days [19:39] mike: i think this game is stupid [19:39] Thunder_God: He gives chase? But he doesn't, she runs, he tries to parlay. [19:39] Thunder_God: Mike didn't say that, that's my stupid brother. [19:39] Thunder_God: Mike is sitting next to me. [19:39] Filip: and she runs. obviously, he would react [19:40] Thunder_God: That could be the followup conflict. [19:40] Thunder_God: Except someone narrated him giving chase and falling on his face. [19:40] Thunder_God: If the narration had him giving chase, then I'd have had it as a follow up conflict. [19:40] Thunder_God: Sounds reasonable? [19:40] mike: The game is not stupid - it sucks ass!!!! (just kidding) [19:40] Filip: not much ;) [19:40] Thunder_God: Heh. [19:40] Thunder_God: Also, you say your reasons were to win. [19:41] Thunder_God: That works great, but when you give advantages, I don't care about your meta-reasons. I care for the story-reasons. [19:41] Filip: and this means that I had to give him as many advantage dice as possible [19:41] Thunder_God: If your story reasons suck, then you don't get a bonus to win. [19:41] Filip: cause that was my plan [19:41] Filip: and this collides [19:41] Filip: you have agenda clash here [19:41] Filip: two agenda's in one bubble [19:42] Thunder_God: Filip, you forget, if you become an ass, then everything stops. When people want to move on and you bicker and argue and stand on your heels, stopping things from moving to get your way, things break down. Games aren't meant to be played when people are willing to ruin others' fun for their win. [19:42] mike: #roll 100[1d100] [19:42] mike: #roll 100[1d50] [19:42] mike: #roll 50[1d50] [19:42] *** -RPGServ- [19:42] Thunder_God: They work so long you agree to have fun and win, and not stop others from having fun. [19:42] Filip: but - there is a place in your game for stopping to argue [19:42] Thunder_God: And it's possible I have an agenda clash. [19:43] Thunder_God: Filip>Yes, when people say, "Roll the dice". [19:43] *** mike has signed off IRC (Disintegrated: Today is a good day to chat.). [19:43] Filip: that's in the first place - if it was impossible to get the dice out of nowwhere, there wouldn't be place for arguing [19:43] Thunder_God: And that's where I had to cut you, because you kept trying to bring up fabricated reasons, re-clothe the same arguements in new shapes, etc. [19:43] *** mike has joined #CranRat. [19:43] Thunder_God: I think it's a perceptional difference. [19:44] Thunder_God: You see it as "Getting dice out of nowhere" [19:44] Filip: and this is the place in which you could hurt my feelings and stuff ;P [19:44] Thunder_God: I see it as "Creating Narration and giving it a mechanical effect". [19:44] Thunder_God: Heh. [19:44] Filip: also, why didn't you give me a goal like everyone else? [19:44] Thunder_God: And you could hurt everyone's feelings by not giving up... [19:44] Thunder_God: Filip>I didn't have a Rat goal in mind, really. [19:44] Thunder_God: That was it. [19:45] Filip: I couldn't, if there was no reason for me to try to get those dice in the first place :P [19:45] Filip: and by not giving Rat a goal, you unbalance things [19:45] Filip: I'm at a disadvantage now, anyway [19:45] Thunder_God: Mike is behind me, reading a book. [19:45] Filip: so, I feel screwed [19:45] Thunder_God: Filip>Well, you may gain a Goal when others don't in another character. [19:46] Thunder_God: Each character is another battlefield. [19:46] Thunder_God: I am not obligated to keep things balanced at all costs. My Tokens are my Narrative control, and I decided to use them to bring certain things to be. [19:46] Filip: I may or I may not, no guarantee. And I'm at a disadvantage next time, since I sabed my die to buy a goal which I could harvest next time, and everyone got one for free [19:46] Thunder_God: You want another story, you use your Tokens, like you did! [19:47] Thunder_God: No one got a Goal for free. [19:47] Thunder_God: I paid for it. [19:47] Thunder_God: It cost me Tokens too. [19:47] Filip: but this spoils our competition [19:47] Thunder_God: Tokens I could use for other things. [19:47] Thunder_God: I disagree. [19:47] Filip: I could use my token for other things, too. they have spent tokens, and you gave them back [19:48] Filip: As I've already said somewhere - playing chess while having someone randomly move your pieces [19:48] Thunder_God: You claim to view everything from a mechanical reason, yet you don't act that way. [19:48] Filip: For example? [19:49] Filip: When did I put story before mechanics? [19:49] Thunder_God: If all you care about is mechanics, you wouldn't have purchased a Goal, you'd have hoarded it and spent it mechanically. Yet now you claim I'm ruining things by looking at things from a purely mechanical stand-point. I give the Tokens for STORY, yet you cry about Mechanics. When I gave the Goals, I didn't care about mechanics, I cared about story. [19:50] Filip: No. I purchased the goal only to harvest a token next time. [19:50] Filip: This is mechanical spending for me [19:50] Thunder_God: So you look at the game from a lacking viewpoint, IMO. [19:50] Filip: remember that I look at goals as if they were token reservoit [19:50] Thunder_God: The game isn't 100% mechanical. [19:50] Thunder_God: It's 60% mechanical and 40% story. [19:50] Filip: but it's 100% about winning [19:50] Thunder_God: You choose to disregard story at your own risk. [19:50] Thunder_God: It's 100% about having fun. [19:51] Filip: story can be woven around the mechanics just as well [19:51] Thunder_God: And vice versa? [19:51] Filip: but you won't win with story. you win mechanically, when your aspect reaches 10 [19:51] Filip: there are incoherences in the game, IMO [19:52] Thunder_God: Again, I gave them Resources for Story. You say it's not fair from a Mechanics standpoint. My answer? I don't care about the mechanics when I do that. [19:52] Thunder_God: I think there's a nuance to note. [19:52] Filip: and this spoils the competition :) [19:52] Thunder_God: Let me type it all, I'll hit /ga and then reply, Kk? [19:52] Filip: ok [19:53] Thunder_God: You won't win with story? Story can lead to you winning, or helping you. As you noted, people got resources for Story reasons, resources which can help them win. [19:53] Thunder_God: You want to wrest control? It has to fit your Aspect's role, again, story helping or hindering you, from winning. [19:54] Thunder_God: Also, you said, "But you won't win with story." My answer? You may not win the Game with story, but you can win the Authorital stakes with it. [19:54] Thunder_God: So you will lose mechanically, your Aspects won't reach 10 before others', but you may get to narrate half the scenes, half the scenes' results, you win, you win in the area you care about. This is why Tokens can be spent both for story and Mechanics. They let you choose, and "Win" what you care for. [19:57] Thunder_God: test [19:57] Filip: yes, but that means manipulating the story for mechanical gains. The Enlightened is the factor that manipulates the story despite player's intentions. it's too biased. why should I try and plot if it requires only the whim of The Enlightened to unfairly spoil my advantage in the competition or give advantage to others? [19:57] Thunder_God: ga [19:57] Thunder_God: I did /ga and it ate it up. [19:57] Filip: er? [19:58] Thunder_God: I said I'd type /ga for when I'm done, I did, but all lines following / are commands, and there is no /ga command, he.h [19:58] Filip: also, I care for what the rat or any other aspect cares. for gettinf 10 dots ;) [19:58] Filip: :) [19:58] Thunder_God: :P [19:58] Thunder_God: I think also it means manipulating mechanics for story gain. [19:59] Thunder_God: Like, gaining more Tokens, just so you could gain more story control. [19:59] Filip: sometimes it would fit my plans, like when I wrested control from Andrew last session [20:00] Thunder_God: Consider that other players may have other goals. [20:00] Thunder_God: Some may care for gaining control of story. [20:00] Thunder_God: And won't mind letting you "Win" mechanically, so long they get to narrate the road. [20:01] Filip: you know what happens when three players sit to play D&D and one wants to kill things and take their stuff, the other one want to address the premise, and the third one bothers mostly with causality? ;) [20:01] Thunder_God: It breaks down. [20:01] Filip: well, why should I play competitive game with people, who don't want to stop me from winning? that's poor sport [20:01] Thunder_God: But then again, it doesn't work because not all can work simultanously. [20:01] Thunder_God: In CR, it goes the other way around. [20:01] Thunder_God: So you want to win mechanically, so you offer your narration rights. [20:01] Thunder_God: And the person who cares about Story buys them. [20:01] Thunder_God: You both win. [20:02] Thunder_God: Same if he gives you a Goal, because it fits the story. [20:02] Filip: notice, that nobody bought story rights from me when I proposed this [20:02] Thunder_God: Well, they want to stop you from winning, but they also want other things. [20:02] Thunder_God: Note, this isn't CI Game, this is CSI Game. [20:02] Thunder_God: There is story, and it's important. [20:02] Filip: yes. story in the background. woven around the competitive part. works for me ;) [20:02] Thunder_God: Heh, [20:03] Filip: that's why I continually removed rules that make competition and story collide in Threads [20:03] Thunder_God: You mean, interact. [20:03] Filip: (some more things to change in threads btw) [20:04] Filip: not much [20:04] Filip: collide [20:04] Thunder_God: I see it as interact. [20:04] Thunder_God: Let's call it colliding world-views? :P [20:04] Filip: like, you have two games: one is story building, the second one - all out competition [20:04] Filip: well, it's your game [20:04] Thunder_God: Eventually, yes. [20:04] Thunder_God: :P [20:05] Filip: don't tell I didn't warn you :P [20:05] Thunder_God: Heh. [20:05] Thunder_God: What would happen if Threads would turn into a game with no story? [20:05] Filip: I would have card game [20:06] Filip: fine with me [20:06] Filip: I've been thinking about writing about three possible modes of play in the final version [20:06] Thunder_God: Remember, System Matters. I think Story or Interaction without mechanics enforcing them SUCK. In order for mechanics to be utilized though, they have to matter, how do you do that? You make them the same mechanics that are involved in the game-side of the fence(BTW, I think this would make for a great article on my blog....) [20:07] Filip: no story, story first and standard [20:07] Thunder_God: Well, I'm not fine with having a Card Game, it's definitely NOT what I'm going for, and you know that. [20:07] Thunder_God: ::nods:: [20:07] Thunder_God: That's a great idea. [20:07] Filip: well, there are places where story and mechanics interact [20:08] Filip: general stakes, that only decide about what happens, but don't give anyone real advantage (well, a bit of context for using Threads), and all this context stuff - trait awards etc. [20:09] Filip: but, trait awards are connected with closed currency flow, and I removed exalted-ish stunt rules in v.1.1 [20:09] Thunder_God: Well, even setting Stakes can give people an advantage here, since it defines which Traits are used, and must be relevant for you to try and wrest control, at least in CR. [20:09] Filip: so that it wouldn't have sense to veto someone's narration unless someone really cares [20:09] Thunder_God: Filip, I think you're moving towards CI Games :P That's not a bad thing, mind, just not what I'm shooting for. [20:10] Filip: well, yes setting stakes and stuff, but this is mechanically regulated already [20:10] Filip: you can have whatever context you want unless someone pays something or risks dice [20:11] Filip: and I could say you're moving towards SI Games just as well :P [20:11] Filip: :) [20:12] Thunder_God: Heh, you know that's false, you just say that my C and S collide. [20:12] Thunder_God: It's not the same as not C. [20:12] Thunder_God: Whereas your S seems to be slowly evaporating, at least in regards to the "Mechanically supported" qualification. [20:13] Filip: and I disagree, because I think Threads is going in a direction that reinforces S mechanically - by eliminating points in which it collide with C [20:13] Thunder_God: Well, I'll wait for this next version. [20:13] Filip: well, yes [20:15] Filip: btw, what wbout your redlines? I probably won't start working on the next version for some weeks now, but I'd prefer to see everything before I start. although you probably tackled with most important points already. I'm quite aware of the presence some mechanical flaws in the conflict resolution, but I need a playtest to accurately locate them ;) [20:15] Thunder_God: I'll do them this week. [20:16] Filip: probably I'll change all those challenge formulas [20:16] Thunder_God: Doing a paramedic week, so no army, so will have time. [20:16] Filip: ok [20:16] Filip: So, I'm not sure if I mentioned it - fun, besides those points I complain about ;) [20:16] Thunder_God: I did ask :P [20:17] Thunder_God: But again, I want you to tell me, what IS fun for you? [20:17] Filip: plotting, and all this mechanical strategizing [20:17] Thunder_God: What about the story-framing, or you truly don't care for it? [20:18] Filip: and the background is getting more interesting [20:18] *** mike has signed off IRC (Disintegrated: Today is a good day to chat.). [20:18] Thunder_God: See, so you do care for it :P [20:18] Filip: but that was a small smile. conflicts gave me biiig smiles [20:18] Thunder_God: Mike is gonna leave, heh. [20:19] Thunder_God: Heh, well, what outweighed what though, your annoyance at your impotence and my incoherent rulings, or your fun through conflicts and plots working? [20:19] Filip: notice, there was no place in which I would put story before the mechanics. background was nice, but nothing that was actually produced by the game - that's our colorizing [20:19] Filip: this is difficult question [20:20] Thunder_God: The scene-framing rules are aggressive, and are rules produced by the game. [20:20] Filip: because I knew what to expect from those rulings [20:21] Thunder_God: I really need an external playtest by a bunch of people I don't know and who never played with me, and have a recording of it. [20:21] Filip: but I'd probably enjoy a background created without this aggresiveness as well. there was no aggression on my side when it came to narrating things. I've been rather swithching to "let's watch the cutscene" mode then [20:22] Thunder_God: ::Nods:: [20:23] Filip: well, you see - if I went to play D&D and DM was doing equivalents of those "favorizing" stuff, I'd probably just go away and don't play in his sessions more. note that D&D is another game which I treat like "obvious goals for the players, which I intend and enjoy to follow" [20:23] Thunder_God: I don't think it's favoritizing, it's more a different angle. [20:24] Thunder_God: Look what Selene said on main window ;) [20:24] Thunder_God: [20:23] Ashera: and i am CHEAP and have NO MORALS [20:25] Filip: ah, but now I'm trying to forget that I hear your explanations about it not being favorizing and put myself into the mind of someone who plays with unknown people. I know well what your intentions are - if I knew not, I probably wouldn't be here any more :) [20:25] Thunder_God: Heh. [20:25] Filip: yay [20:25] Thunder_God: I need to explore this point of cohesion and colliding on my blog. [20:25] Thunder_God: Maybe by next Saturday, got a bunch of projects first. [20:25] Filip: note John Kirk's comments about this stuff, in the diagrams thread [20:26] Thunder_God: Copy/paste the relevant bit please. [20:26] Filip: btw, so what about mike? we don't continue today? [20:26] Filip: wait [20:26] Thunder_God: Seems we won't continue today :-/ [20:27] Filip: was that in first thoughts? [20:28] Thunder_God: No, he had a thread for Diagrams. [20:28] Filip: ok, remeber we have flood scene for Rod to complete [20:28] Thunder_God: No, we finished it. [20:28] Filip: flood scene [20:28] Thunder_God: Mike got the 7th Aspect Dot. [20:28] Filip: er? [20:28] Thunder_God: When a Trait goes down, it doesn't start a Flood Scene. [20:28] Filip: after I lost it [20:28] Filip: but then, social, two marks, point down, highest aspect looses die [20:29] Filip: oh [20:29] Filip: right [20:29] Filip: crap ;) [20:29] Thunder_God: No, if a Trait goes to _0_, you take a dot from unclaimed. [20:29] Filip: one more mark [20:29] Thunder_God: If there are no unclaimed, you take from highest. [20:29] Thunder_God: See Filip, you did what you wanted, you just misjudged the distance ;) [20:30] Filip: er, wait. does the die is out of game then, or is it put into the unclaimed, and flood scene starts? [20:30] Thunder_God: Out of game. [20:30] Thunder_God: Wait. [20:30] Filip: hey, still learning the game ;) [20:30] Thunder_God: The trait die is out of game. [20:30] Thunder_God: The Aspect Dot, goes to unclaimed, with no Flood Scene. [20:31] Thunder_God: If you have Marks=Aspects, you can start a Flood Scene. [20:31] Thunder_God: Where you go for the unclaimed dots. [20:31] Filip: uhum [20:31] Thunder_God: If there are no unclaimed dots, you must try and steal from the highest Aspect. [20:31] Filip: I thought there is an immediate flood scene [20:31] Thunder_God: Nope :) [20:32] Thunder_God: Otherwise, what good are Aspect Marks? :P [20:32] Filip: well, my bad [20:32] Thunder_God: Hmmm, the Conflict rules though, working and lots of fun? [20:32] Filip: heh [20:32] Filip: rather yes [20:32] Filip: I see no more problems right now [20:33] Thunder_God: I think you'd like it best if I returned the old Token scheme, where Tokens you owned could only be spent on "Story" shit, and only Tokens other people gave you could be used mechanically. [20:33] Filip: well, the game proceedes quite slow, mostly to the medium, but still [20:33] Thunder_God: Which would also encourage you to do things which get people to give you Tokens. [20:33] Thunder_God: Yes, Mike also said it's the medium, but then again, how can we tell without offline playtest to comparte to? [20:33] Filip: definitely a better way [20:33] Filip: exactly [20:33] Thunder_God: I removed it because it added a whole new layer of complexity. [20:35] SSF: and baq [20:35] Filip: aspect ratios are actually very complex. it did't go in our way mostly because you were doing all the maths [20:35] Thunder_God: Baq? [20:35] Thunder_God: BAK. [20:35] Thunder_God: Back at keyboard. [20:35] Thunder_God: Andrew, seems we won't continue today, so tell me what you thought. [20:36] Filip: damn, you remember in which subforum was the thread about Diagrams? [20:36] Thunder_God: Filip>I did the math beforehand, then I just consulted it. [20:36] Thunder_God: Filip>First thoughts, either second or third page. [20:36] Filip: oh, yes, If we finish, then my last token goes on goal for rat: get revenge on the police [20:37] Filip: I wasn't sure if it;s the end or not [20:37] Thunder_God: Filip>Sure. [20:37] Filip: that's what I've been saving them for after all ;) [20:37] Thunder_God: Filip, I must note, you truly link Rat to Revenge. [20:37] Thunder_God: Get Revenge on Rednecks, get revenge on Police. [20:37] Filip: yeah [20:37] Thunder_God: Though technically, the police just did their job :P [20:37] Filip: well, that was the first thing I thought about [20:38] Thunder_God: ::Nods:: :) [20:38] Filip: but Rod could get angry anyway [20:38] Thunder_God: I'm just commenting, not saying anything else. [20:38] Thunder_God: :: prods Andrew:: Andrew thoughts! [20:38] Filip: and those things lead to conflict next time [20:38] SSF: *nods* Again, slow. [20:38] Filip: look at all those goals ;) yay, jail ;) [20:38] SSF: How many scenes does it take to complete a game? [20:39] Filip: how many sessions you mean? ;) [20:39] Thunder_God: I have no idea. [20:39] Thunder_God: This is the first run of the game. [20:39] SSF: No, scenes. [20:39] Filip: and we are all stil learning [20:39] Thunder_God: Andrew>Fun, no fun...? What was fun, etc. [20:39] SSF: Sessions can have a variable number of scenes. [20:40] Filip: scenes per character to win for that char is easier to adjudicate. there were 2 scenes for rod, one player is 3 dots from win [20:40] Thunder_God: Filip>Yet, the higher he goes, the more likely he'll overflow and give you people Tokens. [20:40] Filip: nd he has advantage for Rod. less goals, though. [20:41] Filip: look ho easy it would be to steal from us next time [20:41] SSF: hrm. [20:42] Thunder_God: Andrew, how about the fun factor? [20:43] SSF: It was okay. I enjoyed setting the scene, but when you have no real dice, it is just sitting back and watching. [20:44] Thunder_God: ::Nods:: Though you need to compete in order to gain dice, or lose an Aspect Dot in order to replenish your Die Reservoir... [20:44] Thunder_God: So, how was Conflict and Bidding and Flood Scene this time? [20:45] Filip: oh my, John's thread really moved to 3rd page in such a short time! ;) [20:45] SSF: They proceeded well. [20:45] Filip: found the comment [20:45] Filip: "6) Allowing the GM to spend tokens to help out one side or the other destroys all hope of GM impartiality. I believe the GM must be unbiased in this game, especially since it is competitive. If the GM spends tokens, the other players will feel cheated. Hurt feelings and anger will result, which is never fun. " [20:46] Thunder_God: ::nods:: [20:46] Thunder_God: This issue still needs further proof, for me at least, from other groups. [20:46] Filip: sure [20:46] Thunder_God: This issue won't be resolved in our group, for sure, but anecdotal evidence isn't empirical, and I'm sure you agree. [20:47] Filip: well, note that the game could work just fine like it is anyway. for me it's the waning of C, though. and yes, we won't resolve it here. [20:48] Thunder_God: ::Nods:: [20:48] SSF: *nods* [20:48] Filip: you definitely need other people to playtest the game - especially, people conscious about their agendas. [20:48] Thunder_God: Technically, I think once I add a way for there to be less Tokens around, I think the game would be functional, and could be played and purchased. But I want proof ;) [20:48] Thunder_God: ::Nods:: [20:49] Thunder_God: Andrew, what wasn't fun? [20:49] Filip: so, the game is quite functional - the only question is, in what way it functions - more CI, or more SI, or CSI proper :) [20:49] Filip: and amen [20:50] Thunder_God: Heh. [20:50] Filip: btw, Guy, how many tokens you had by the end of the game? [20:50] Thunder_God: Well, even if it's more SI or more CI, it's still both C and S, to different degrees. [20:50] Thunder_God: 10.... [20:50] Filip: I kept tokens here, and you amasse quite a pile - but I forgot to move tokens used by you out of play [20:51] Filip: yes, it is [20:51] Thunder_God: I may add a fan-mail mechanic, where I only have 33% or 50% of gaining the Tokens you people spend. [20:51] Filip: maybe The Enlightened should have less tokens, but two sessions are still not enough evidence [20:51] Thunder_God: And maybe I won't gain Tokens you people spend on story stuff, like setting Goals, aka, the Token is now "invested" in the character, which is all sorts of cool. [20:52] Filip: most of your tokens were wasted in the end [20:52] Thunder_God: And then I could call giving a character a goal "Investing" heh. [20:52] Filip: btw, have you read Dragon vs Gun? [20:52] Thunder_God: Not yet. [20:52] Filip: there is interesting token economy there. and public pools [20:52] Thunder_God: ::Nods:: You told me. [20:52] Thunder_God: I have a mostly functional memory ;) [20:52] Thunder_God: ANDREW, yo, what wasn't fun, etc, more details! [20:54] SSF: Sitting around in a scene that could last 20 minutes with nothing to do ;P [20:54] Thunder_God: ::nods:: [20:54] Filip: and what about - you don't simply give a goal to the player. you propose him a goal, and he either accepts the goal (and you lose token), or something else? [20:54] Thunder_God: I dunno, the Goals also are somewhat of the character's. [20:54] Thunder_God: Also, Goals don't have to be persued, they're options. [20:55] *** You have been disconnected. Sat Jul 08 20:55:04 2006. [20:55] *** You have been disconnected. Sat Jul 08 20:55:06 2006. [20:56] *** You have been disconnected. Sat Jul 08 20:56:18 2006. [20:56] *** You have been disconnected. Sat Jul 08 20:56:31 2006. Session Close (#CranRat): Sat Jul 08 20:56:45 2006 Session Start (Thunder_God:#CranRat): Sat Jul 08 22:00:51 2006 [22:00] *** #CranRat: @Thunder_God [22:00] *** #CranRat was created on Sat Jul 08 22:01:44 2006.